The Hate On Apple Thread

[Quiltface]

A group of 4 Microsoft .NET programmers and a group of 4 Java programmers are going on a train to an expo. The MS programmers buy a ticket each, and then watch the Java programmers proceed to buy one ticket between them.

The MS programmers are intrigued and when they get on the train, they watch the Java programmers to see what they do when the guard comes to check the tickets. It turns out that, before the guard comes, they all cram into the toilet. The guard knocks on the door, and asks for the ticket. The guard takes it from under the door, and slides it back.

The MS programmers are all impressed, so on the way back, they buy only one ticket. Only to watch the Java folks get on the train without buying a ticket at all.

When they get on the train, the MS people cram into the toilet, as they saw the Java folks on the earlier journey. The Java programmers then knock on the door, and say "Ticket please". The MS programmers slide the ticket under the door, as they saw the Java programmers do earlier.

"Thank you", they say. "You steal our methods, but you don't understand them."

True story.

 

[Kitsune]

I use Windows 7 and I can fly around like the wind. I jump on a mac and I cant even find a start or menu button it seriously took me like an hour and a half to figure out how to shut the thing off, and right when I found it the battery died x.x

 

[tlarkin]

I use Windows 7 and I can fly around like the wind. I jump on a mac and I cant even find a start or menu button it seriously took me like an hour and a half to figure out how to shut the thing off, and right when I found it the battery died x.x

how is that the OSes fault? That is your lacking of ability to use the OS.

 

[Kitsune]

how is that the OSes fault? That is your lacking of ability to use the OS.

That may be so but couldn't it be more user friendly? I mean a monkey could run Windows.
I think that is about the only problem I had with it.
I tried to learn the system but it is like learning another language to me x.x
My Mother bought me a mac book for christmas 2 years ago now I have no Idea where it went. I felt so bad, for not liking it, I paid her back for it.

 

[Geoff]

That may be so but couldn't it be more user friendly? I mean a monkey could run Windows.
I think that is about the only problem I had with it.
I tried to learn the system but it is like learning another language to me x.x
My Mother bought me a mac book for christmas 2 years ago now I have no Idea where it went. I felt so bad, for not liking it, I paid her back for it.

Want to find and open an application? Go > Applications

Want to search for a file? Click on the magnifying glass

Want to check for updates? Click on the Apple icon > software update

Want to shutdown? Apple > Shutdown

I don't see how hard that was to figure out. I learned more on how to use a Mac in an hour then I did using a PC for months.

 

[tlarkin]

That may be so but couldn't it be more user friendly? I mean a monkey could run Windows.
I think that is about the only problem I had with it.
I tried to learn the system but it is like learning another language to me x.x
My Mother bought me a mac book for christmas 2 years ago now I have no Idea where it went. I felt so bad, for not liking it, I paid her back for it.

Your comparison is not really that good. Most likely you have been using Windows for years and since Windows 7 still has a similar layouts to that of Windows 95, ie a start menu.

If you have never used a Mac ever in your entire life you won't instantly know everything, however you can draw parallels

Software Update = Windows Update
System Preferences = Control Panels
Finder = Explorer

I mean it doesn't take that much to get the basics of it.

 

[Dystopia]

Every time I use that word, people ask me what it means... this one time I got asked if it's a jewish word :/

I just google words I don't know the meaning of

@whoeversaidaceriscrap: I like my acer netbook...

@everyonewhoisarguingandeveninsulting: Just give it up, neither side is going to understand why Macs can be better than PCs for some, and worse for others. For example, I am sure that a Mac would work fine for me; I don't game on PCs. But do I need more power than my $300 netbook? Nope. Do I need, or even want a thinner netbook? No, mine is already > 1". Am I worried about security? No. So would me shelling out a bunch of extra cash for a Macbook whatever? Nope.

On the other hand, if I actually DID stuff on my netbook aside from surfing the web and listening to music, I could use a Mac.

 

[Kitsune]

True
The problem is I am an imatient learner with "new" things. Not everything is the same granted.

Some people learn things at different rates, pick up things quicker, are able to use them more efficiently. I used a mac OS in middle school and it was easier to learn because it was setup like windows. There was an apple button on the task bar that I took to be the "start" menu (I just remembered this BTW) ect. I got the mac for xmas and I felt so over whelmed (SP?) by the new layout that I just couldnt take it.

But this is a flaming thread After all

 

[speedyink]

Snow Leopard actually takes up less memory than Leopard. They cut out the fat in OS X 10.6.

Microsoft doesn't do that.

I guess from Vista to 7 doesn't count.

Acer is the worst.

Old Acer, yes. New(ish) Acer, you've got some research to do, or maybe you're just plain ignorant. If this is based on hardware failure, you'd be happy to know that Apples fail just as much or more than some of the competing brands. I can't find the statistic right now, but Apple wasn't at the top for least hardware failure.

 

[tlarkin]

I guess from Vista to 7 doesn't count.



Old Acer, yes. New(ish) Acer, you've got some research to do, or maybe you're just plain ignorant. If this is based on hardware failure, you'd be happy to know that Apples fail just as much or more than some of the competing brands. I can't find the statistic right now, but Apple wasn't at the top for least hardware failure.

Snow Leopard takes up to 8 less gigs of HD space over Leopard because they dropped out PPC support. So when you upgrade from 10.5 to 10.6 the OS gives you almost 10 gigs of HD space.

 

[Quiltface]

Depending on how old we are talking my buddy worked at a place that had all acer computers and ended up ordering something around 50-60 motherboards for them because they just kept dying.

And that is great about apple's having hardware failure... i am not even on apple's side of the fence per-say.

If acer has picked their game up in the past few years that is great but I will never buy a fleet of them for a company i work for.

And no I guess I don't spend my time researching if Acer doesn't suck anymore so I guess that is on me.

 

[tlarkin]

Old Acer, yes. New(ish) Acer, you've got some research to do, or maybe you're just plain ignorant. If this is based on hardware failure, you'd be happy to know that Apples fail just as much or more than some of the competing brands. I can't find the statistic right now, but Apple wasn't at the top for least hardware failure.

I have worked for two school systems. Each of them has over 10,000 PC devices each, and they were Gateway, Dell, Sony, HP business class, and some local built brands here and there (but those were rare).

Before that even more years ago I worked at a company that did business/retail sales and I worked in the service department as a warranty tech. I repaired every brand of everything when it came to computers.

Apple computers fail, they sure do just like everything else. However, I wouldn't say they fail more, and the failures I mostly see in them at my current job is almost always user related. It was dropped, or the HD failed which they do not make, etc.

I can tell you working with teach company out there Apple has superior customer service. Dells are trash and HP is trash unless you buy HP business class. I was actually quite impressed with HP business class machines. They were built barebones like, weren't bloated in preloaded crappy software, and were decently priced and well built.

I think I ordered parts on Gateways and Dells on a daily basis, meaning every day one of them failed. We had thousands of each.

 

[dave1701]

If the cost of ownership is so high, why do so many school/ buisnesses/ libraries use Dells?

 

[awildgoose]

I hate to stereotype gamers all into one lump of people, but a lot of them don't know jack sh** about computers. I, not too long ago, was on the SCII forums reading up on Protoss strategies and I noticed a computer hardware thread so I figured since my expertise is in computers I'd help since a lot of the hardcore SCII share their strategies with the casual players like myself.

This guy was going to buy 12gig of RAM for his rig, and I told him no it is a waste of money, all you need is 4gigs. Later on I had to explain memory addressing, and that 32bit memory addressing can only access a maximum of 4gigs of RAM, period. At that point a lot of the gamers stopped arguing but a few hard headed ones kept coming at me. One was a gamer who was also some sort of 3D designer. He argued with me that every application is 64bit because he deals with 10+ gig files at work all the time. I then had to explain to him file size was limitation of the file system not the OS.

Several gamers called me a noob and an idiot blah blah blah then I actually showed them that Starcraft II is a 32-bit application, as is pretty much every video game you buy off the shelf today, and that having over 4gigs of RAM really doesn't give you any advantage unless you multi-task a ton.

There are so many self proclaimed experts in computing that don't even understand the fundamentals, then they like to create threads about how certain type of computer sucks, certain type of video card sucks, or how you need 8gigs of RAM, etc.

That is why I need to avoid posting in such threads as my intentions in the beginning are always to help, but in the end it always turns into an argument with people who are ignorant. Reminds me of an old saying....

"Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level, then beat you with experience."

This is exactly my point. Majority of people on here are gamers and Macs aren't really gaming machines, so obviously mac = crap.

That may be so but couldn't it be more user friendly? I mean a monkey could run Windows.
I think that is about the only problem I had with it.
I tried to learn the system but it is like learning another language to me x.x
My Mother bought me a mac book for christmas 2 years ago now I have no Idea where it went. I felt so bad, for not liking it, I paid her back for it.

I've used a mac once, at a friends and I got the hang of it pretty much straight away. Although he is one of the mac elitist guys so I have to bring him down a notch sometimes hehehe.

 

[tlarkin]

If the cost of ownership is so high, why do so many school/ buisnesses/ libraries use Dells?

That is not really true anymore. Apple has over a 25% market share in the USA, but only about 8-9% world wide. Meaning 1 in 4 computers in the USA is a Mac.

Government is switching to Macs. NASA switched to using some Macs. Google is switching to using Macs.

Overall cost of ownership is lower really. They have a longer life cycle. Their software licensing is way cheaper. Ever see what a site license of Windows costs? They are by design more secure.

 

[ScOuT]

Government is switching to Macs.

No...that will never happen. We use dozens if not hundreds of specialized programs for everything you can think of built just for each certain things.

The Military and Government has several world wide networks (both secret and non-secret) with millions of computers, servers, battle tracking systems, records keeping and many others. There is hundreds of thousands of Terabytes of stored information. Everything we have ever done with computer systems is stored in files on "Share Drives"

The entire Government runs off of Windows...everything.

 

[tlarkin]

No...that will never happen. We use dozens if not hundreds of specialized programs for everything you can think of built just for each certain things.

The Military and Government has several world wide networks (both secret and non-secret) with millions of computers, servers, battle tracking systems, records keeping and many others. There is hundreds of thousands of Terabytes of stored information. Everything we have ever done with computer systems is stored in files on "Share Drives"

The entire Government runs off of Windows...everything.

Eh you are wrong...

For one the NSA publishes security documents every year on using Macs, which means they use them. There are so many Apple related IT jobs in DC right now because government is a big client. A simple google search pulled this up as well

http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/surprise_apple_sells_to_the_federal_government/

Just because the government has tons of branches and uses tons of equipment does not mean they only use one kind. Plus the pentagon deployed OS X servers years ago to test out their security abilities versus Windows since Windows boxes have the most exploits out there over other machines.

The government also uses a lot of Unix and Linux on the back end.

EDIT- Oh and the US Army has been using them too
http://www.forbes.com/2007/12/20/apple-army-hackers-tech-security-cx_ag_1221army.html

 

[speedyink]

I have worked for two school systems. Each of them has over 10,000 PC devices each, and they were Gateway, Dell, Sony, HP business class, and some local built brands here and there (but those were rare).

Before that even more years ago I worked at a company that did business/retail sales and I worked in the service department as a warranty tech. I repaired every brand of everything when it came to computers.

Apple computers fail, they sure do just like everything else. However, I wouldn't say they fail more, and the failures I mostly see in them at my current job is almost always user related. It was dropped, or the HD failed which they do not make, etc.

I can tell you working with teach company out there Apple has superior customer service. Dells are trash and HP is trash unless you buy HP business class. I was actually quite impressed with HP business class machines. They were built barebones like, weren't bloated in preloaded crappy software, and were decently priced and well built.

I think I ordered parts on Gateways and Dells on a daily basis, meaning every day one of them failed. We had thousands of each.

Well Gateway and Dell definitely don't near the top for least hardware failures. I was merely stating that Apple wasn't at the top of the list, they were no where near the failures of gateway or dell.

I myself own a macbook with a failed inverter (or backlight), and I know my friend had to replace the hard drive in his. Whereas my Acer I only had to replace the keyboard because the previous owner spilled soda on it and managed to knock out a bunch of the keys. Whoever said Acer's are shit is a tool, they don't just make $399 laptops.

 

[tlarkin]

Well Gateway and Dell definitely don't near the top for least hardware failures. I was merely stating that Apple wasn't at the top of the list, they were no where near the failures of gateway or dell.

I myself own a macbook with a failed inverter (or backlight), and I know my friend had to replace the hard drive in his. Whereas my Acer I only had to replace the keyboard because the previous owner spilled soda on it and managed to knock out a bunch of the keys. Whoever said Acer's are shit is a tool, they don't just make $399 laptops.

Yeah but hard drives are made by hard drive companies, so when they fail would you really consider that the fault of the laptop manufacturer? If Apple, or anyone else buys a bad batch of hard drives, that isn't necessarily Apple's fault.

However, apple will extend the warranty on known failed parts, most companies DO NOT do that.

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/hd/repairextension/

That just expired in August but was a 2 year extension on laptops that were three years old. So, hate all you want, or point out the hardware failures as you do, but take into account Apple was replacing hard drives on 3 year old laptops on a warranty extension. At zero cost to the the user, besides down time of course.

 

[brian]

Yeah but hard drives are made by hard drive companies, so when they fail would you really consider that the fault of the laptop manufacturer? If Apple, or anyone else buys a bad batch of hard drives, that isn't necessarily Apple's fault.

However, apple will extend the warranty on known failed parts, most companies DO NOT do that.

http://www.apple.com/support/macbook/hd/repairextension/

That just expired in August but was a 2 year extension on laptops that were three years old. So, hate all you want, or point out the hardware failures as you do, but take into account Apple was replacing hard drives on 3 year old laptops on a warranty extension. At zero cost to the the user, besides down time of course.

Yeah a good example of that is the crackbooks. Apple now will replace the white exterior of old macbooks showing signs of cracks.

However they also have somewhat of an attitude. Look at the whole iphone 4, Steve said that its not the phones fault (which it is, a bad design) but that its the users fault for holding it wrong. They did eventually correct this with the bumper but still..

I must say tho, that I was a mac hater at one point, I thought it was too simplistic and you could not do much. However since I got my macbook pro, I have found that I enjoy it more then my fujitsu. The start up time is 1/2 that of windows easily, the battery lasts around 7 hours on a charge, the speakers are really good, and the display is very bright. Lastly, its 1/2 the size of my other laptop, and the aluminum case is a great plus.

The one thing apple makes that I do not like is the iphone, I don't agree on how they deliver applications to the users and I hate how locked down the normal os is.

Plus, (I havnt checked so im going to be proven wrong here but here it goes..) can anyone find a pc as powerful and as small as a mac mini?