If you insist on comparing a PC to a Mac read this first

tlarkin said:
No, you missed my point. I said show me a 5 year old computer that can run Windows 7 efficiently as a 5 year old computer that runs Snow Leopard. I was talking that Macs, historically tend to last longer with newer OS updates versus a PC with Windows. This has always been the case, but Apple's business model has higher quality control.
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A 5 year old apple isnt going to run snow leopard, because powerpc support has been removed. The intel macs were introduced in 06:P

Your point is valid though, windows has always been more resource heavy than osx.
 
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tlarkin said:
If you want my honest opinion, you will need at least a year of using a Mac day in and day out to get a feel for it. Same thing goes for linux. You can't just try either Linux or OS X and learn how it all works with in a few months. You need to really sit down and multitask with them.
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Amen. That's what pisses me off with Distro-whores; they'll have 30 Live CD's that they used for 30 minutes each and will spout off pros/cons like they know everything about the OS.
 
laznz1 said:
Id love to see some facts on you comment saying macs last longer i personally believe its in how the computer is maintained

secondly after having a quick look on a few online auction sites in my country and find there are bucket loads of old PC selling for $400-600

so you can basically wipe half of your *Cost of ownership* as its equal and it is in the end how you treat your computer
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For the most part, the longevity of a system is determined by build-quality, day-to-day usage, and the environment it's placed in. Secondary factors include type of stuff it's being used for and type of OS. Windows by nature will degrade over time, prompting a slower system - it's just the way it is. The code and file systems of non-Windows machines are different, hence that's not an issue. That *could* be what he meant.

Just curious, but what country do you live in? Depending on where you are in the world has a lot to do with initial price/resale of parts/systems. Something that costs me $100 in the US might cost someone in the UK $125 (random example - I've no idea the US/UK exchange rates). Exchange rates aside, it simply might just be harder to get a specific piece of technology there, so the price goes up accordingly.

Also, you mentioned *auction* sites...that's hardly a real representation of true going-rates. For example, I frequently scour ebay for used Dell laptops for various reasons and am amazed at what some of them are listed for as 'Buy It Now'. Sorry, but an 8 year old P3 with 512 RAM and a refurbished 40 Gig HDD is *not* worth $325. Then of course you have the people who basically run scams and try to take advantage of others, hoping that the technological-ignorance of the masses will prevail and they can make a few quick bucks. Anyone with half a brain can hype up a system and make it sound awesome. Hell, give me 10 minutes, and I'll find a way to make a IIGS sound like a steal for 'only $450'!

Not trying to pick a fight here, just give examples. The Lark was specifically trying to avoid the measure-fest that always seems to follow this topic by giving *real* *specific* *logical* reasons that actually matter, rather than the customary "My Mac is pretty! Why do people use Windows? LOL" "Shutup noobzor, your Mac is teh sucky" "No you shutup! I don't need anti-virus stuff. Down with M$ HAHAHAHAHA!" "Go away, you suck, your family sucks, your neighbors suck. I'm going to kill your dog. UR a troll. WINDOWS FOREVER!!!!!1!!one!!!eleven!!", and I think he did a fairly straightforward job of it:)
 
im in NZ (the country)

and if it sells on these auction sites i suppose it is worth that much to the person who brought it
 
I'm willing to bet that's partly why resell value is so high - typically costs more to ship things to your part of the world, hence higher price to begin with (and again, no clue what the exchange rate is, but I speculate it may have something to do with it also). It's not necessarily a matter of 'holding the value longer' as much as it 'depreciating at the same rate, though starting from a higher initial price-point'. Either way, six-to-one, half dozen to another I suppose.

As far as 'worth that much to the person who bought it'...perhaps, but never underestimate the gullibility of computer-ignorant people, and the soullessness of those who would try and take advantage of them.
 
bomberboysk said:
A 5 year old apple isnt going to run snow leopard, because powerpc support has been removed. The intel macs were introduced in 06:P

Your point is valid though, windows has always been more resource heavy than osx.
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OK you got me, but give me one more year and you will see first generation Intel Macs running 10.6 with no issue and they will run it smooth. My 5 year old G5 is running (actually it may be 6 years old now) 10.5.8 with no lag at all. In fact I am using it now because my PSU blew up in my custom built PC. The fact is, Macs last the test of time on OS updates more so than a PC does. My Macs have a lot longer replacement cycle with me. I typically build a new PC every 2 to 3 years with all new parts, and I typically sell my old Mac and buy a new one every 4 to 5 years. Overall cost over time, I spend way more money on my PCs.

This was my leading point on total cost of ownership. I spent $1400 on my last PC rig which I built about 1.5 years ago, and a year from now I will most likely want to upgrade, which forces me to buy new RAM and motherboard to support my new processor. I will spend more money in my lifetime building PCs than I will purchasing Macs.
 
Maybe it's just me, but I certainly think total cost of ownership has a lot less to do with the computer your buying and more to do with the person buying it.

For example, if your a gamer, yes, your gonna be spending shit tons of money. I game, but not enough to warrant buying a new video card every 6 months. I'm still using my 2 year old $900 computer and it's still more than capable of doing every single task I do on a computer.

Virus downtime? Please, I haven't gotten a virus in years. In fact never had a single virus on any of the computers I currently own. Hardware failure downtime..happens on everything. I haven't had a single hardware issue on my pc's, my friends time capsule and macbook both screwed up within months of each other. Others will have opposite experiences. It's destined for any unsuspecting mac OR pc user.

Oh, and I'll just throw in my parents still use they're now 11 year old HP daily for their accounting work.
 
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speedyink said:
Maybe it's just me, but I certainly think total cost of ownership has a lot less to do with the computer your buying and more to do with the person buying it.

For example, if your a gamer, yes, your gonna be spending shit tons of money. I game, but not enough to warrant buying a new video card every 6 months. I'm still using my 2 year old $900 computer and it's still more than capable of doing every single task I do on a computer.
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Sure, and I agree with everything you have said. Which is why I said total cost of ownership is half personal opinion, but should be based off facts or experiences. Of course everyone's mileage may vary. Like you stated, you quantified your total cost of ownership on a $900 build and it is good for you, but it may not be good for or the next person.

Virus downtime? Please, I haven't gotten a virus in years. In fact never had a single virus on any of the computers I currently own. Hardware failure downtime..happens on everything. I haven't had a single hardware issue on my pc's, my friends time capsule and macbook both screwed up within months of each other. Others will have opposite experiences. It's destined for any unsuspecting mac OR pc user.
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No offense, but you always references your friends and their problems, perhaps it is user error? As for virus threats, they are still a real huge issue with Windows boxes, regardless of virus protection or not because of kernel hooks via drivers. Of course I can sit here all day until I am blue in the face and talk about kernel hooks but it will most likely fall on def ears.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/05/07/argument_switch_av_bypass/

It is just a plain fact until MS gets their shit together you are always going to have the possibility of a virus, malware, spyware, etc on Windows more so than any other OS. They need to get rid of kernel hooks all together along with the clunky ass bloated registry.

Oh, and I'll just throw in my parents still use they're now 11 year old HP daily for their accounting work.
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It has the original HD? I find most HDs run like ass after about 5 years of use.
 
tlarkin said:
OK you got me, but give me one more year and you will see first generation Intel Macs running 10.6 with no issue and they will run it smooth. My 5 year old G5 is running (actually it may be 6 years old now) 10.5.8 with no lag at all. In fact I am using it now because my PSU blew up in my custom built PC. The fact is, Macs last the test of time on OS updates more so than a PC does. My Macs have a lot longer replacement cycle with me. I typically build a new PC every 2 to 3 years with all new parts, and I typically sell my old Mac and buy a new one every 4 to 5 years. Overall cost over time, I spend way more money on my PCs.

This was my leading point on total cost of ownership. I spent $1400 on my last PC rig which I built about 1.5 years ago, and a year from now I will most likely want to upgrade, which forces me to buy new RAM and motherboard to support my new processor. I will spend more money in my lifetime building PCs than I will purchasing Macs.
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we refurbished a powerbook g3 at my work, put os10 on it in the process. i think it was the newest supported... anyways.... it was slow as poop. but once everything was loaded in cache, it ran pretty zippy. are all mac coded programs just coded smaller? cause the damn thing only had 256mb ram if i can remember correctly
 
BigSteve702 said:
we refurbished a powerbook g3 at my work, put os10 on it in the process. i think it was the newest supported... anyways.... it was slow as poop. but once everything was loaded in cache, it ran pretty zippy. are all mac coded programs just coded smaller? cause the damn thing only had 256mb ram if i can remember correctly
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When Apple was in shambles, and Apple brought back Steve Jobs, the first thing Jobs said is that they need to find a new OS. They shopped around for a bit but Jobs already had his sights on NeXT. Historically speaking, all Unix OSes have had a much smaller finger print resource wise for running. Apple kept that and Apple is big on not loading tons of legacy code to make older products compatible with the current OS. Which is why Microsoft products run like ass. I hate MS office, no matter what build on what system it runs so damn slow, because it has to load a crap ton of legacy support for like every version of office ever built.

Unix handles on the fly memory and resource management very well. Much better than Windows for sure. If you are refurbing G3 iBooks, those are easily in the 7+ years old range, and are PPC and can only run at the most 10.5. 10.5 (or Leopard) came out during the same time Vista did.
 
tlarkin said:
No offense, but you always references your friends and their problems, perhaps it is user error?
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In both instances it was hard drive failure. He's quite careful with his stuff. I'm not saying hey use crap hard drives either, I'm just saying all hardware can fail.

tlarkin said:
It has the original HD? I find most HDs run like ass after about 5 years of use.
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Original and stock everything, including the 15gb hard drive. Ram hasn't even been upgraded.
 
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speedyink said:
In both instances it was hard drive failure. He's quite careful with his stuff. I'm not saying hey use crap hard drives either, I'm just saying all hardware can fail.



Original and stock everything, including the 15gb hard drive. Ram hasn't even been upgraded.
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Well, touche I guess:D
 
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