If you insist on comparing a PC to a Mac read this first

[tlarkin]

I think that debate on costs versus features and benefits is an OK debate when purchasing a computer. However, when comparing the two you need to put them on the same level of comparison before you actually make a non biased, actual valid comparison you must think about a few things first.

1) Are both products I am comparing similar hardware spec wise?

2) Are they similar feature wise?

3) Are they similar in function? (size, weight, power consumption, etc)

4) Calculate price differences if one lacks feature/function

5) compare and contrast for final analysis.

Example: I will compare a build your own custom PC to a new iMac.

iMac specs and price: 27" core i5 $1999.00
processor: Core i5 @ 2.66Ghz
RAM: 4 gig @ 1066Mhz
Display - 27" LED IPS screen
storage: 1 TB SATA drive
Video: Radeon 4850 512MB
Wireless: Airport Card 802.11 ABGN and BlueTooth 2.1 EDR
A/V - Mini display port, ie HDMI out (HD video and 7.1 audio)
Data I/O: USB, FW2, and SD card
Optical: Super Drive
Webcam: built in iSight
Mac Specific features: ambient light sensor
Keyboard/Mouse: Apple wireless set

Now I will try to build a comparable PC desktop off of newegg or google shopping searches

Processor: core i5 @ 2.66Ghz - $199.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115215

Motherboard (a lot to choose from, good ones always run me at least $120) - $120 (your choice)

RAM: 4gig @ 1066 - $120
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820226101

Case (gonna say pick your own) approx $100 (give or take) Every case I have bought over the past 8 years has been over $100

Power Supply - corsair 550w - $89.99

Hard drive - so many 1TB SATAs for $80 just gonna go with that, paid $80 for my 1TB 7200 RPM Samsung HD

Video card - Radeon 4850 512MB $119.98
http://www.outletpc.com/ql4396.html
Do note the video card here has HDMI out, which is why I chose it

Display - Dell 27" LED IPS support screen - $1,099.00
http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=224-8284&dgc=SS&cid=27530&lid=627063&s=dhs

Wireless (ABGN WiFi card) $42
http://www.gopcshop.com/top/product_info.php?products_id=28646

BT +EDR usb adapter - $20
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ..._re=blue_tooth_adapter-_-33-242-002-_-Product

wireless keyboard/mouse (again many to choose from, the good ones are at least $100 for a combo) $100

Web cam - $42
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16826104316


Total cost of the custom built PC - $2,131.97

Now, I guess we could nix things out like cases, keyboards and mice if you are going to reuse existing stuff you have to help mitigate the cost of the custom built PC. However, then it is no longer a valid comparison. I am sure you could go search high and low and find the same hardware maybe a bit cheaper and help mitigate the costs that way. That is an advantage of building your own, you can shop around. I wasn't going to spend all day on the web searching this stuff. However, google does allow you to search millions of sites and sort by price, which is what I did on certain things.

In the end, everything you get out of the box from an Apple is not over priced at all. You just may not need or want certain features. Notice I put zero compensation on the ambient light sensor for the PC. How much would that feature cost to add? $50? $75? No idea so I left it out, but you still need to consider such things when comparing a Mac to a PC.

If you don't like Macs, that is fine, but your opinion of them sucking because they are over priced is false. I have plenty of personal beefs with Apple myself, but never get to express them on this forum because of the idiocy that people claim when comparing the products.

If you want my honest opinion, you will need at least a year of using a Mac day in and day out to get a feel for it. Same thing goes for linux. You can't just try either Linux or OS X and learn how it all works with in a few months. You need to really sit down and multitask with them.

In the end it is all personal preference because you are going to use and like what you want, regardless of facts laid in front of you.

So let the flames begin!

 

[Quiltface]

Good point... however like you said if it were me buying the machine the price would be cut drastically because for 1 I do not need a

27" LED monitor...
BT adapter
Wireless BGN
Wireless keyboard and mouse
or a webcam

so knock off $1303
and now we have a $829... lets add $30 for a wired keyboard and mouse

$859 and i suppose i need a monitor $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236031

$969 (which is actually damn tempting now that I'm looking at all this haha)

Would you be able to find a comparable MAC for that price...

(please note I am not starting a MAC vs PC war... just trying to educate myself a little more on MAC purchases) I still don't think I will ever buy one but I get asked questions about them enough.

 

[diduknowthat]

And the PC is much bigger and less sleek. I really like macs, though desktop units are not for me because I'm a gamer. I would jump on a macbook pro anyday though.

 

[tlarkin]

Good point... however like you said if it were me buying the machine the price would be cut drastically because for 1 I do not need a

27" LED monitor...
BT adapter
Wireless BGN
Wireless keyboard and mouse
or a webcam

so knock off $1303
and now we have a $829... lets add $30 for a wired keyboard and mouse

$859 and i suppose i need a monitor $110
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236031

$969 (which is actually damn tempting now that I'm looking at all this haha)

Would you be able to find a comparable MAC for that price...

(please note I am not starting a MAC vs PC war... just trying to educate myself a little more on MAC purchases) I still don't think I will ever buy one but I get asked questions about them enough.

That is a valid point, but that doesn't make the Mac over priced and it makes it higher spec than a comparable PC. My whole point is, if you want to compare the Mac to the PC you need to match it spec for spec and then price it out.

Obviously not everyone is going to want to drop $1k on a 27" display, but if you want something of equal quality, you will have to.

That is a down side of the Mac platform, you can't build it like that you buy the whole product. Which is part of Apple's business model.

 

[Quiltface]

I totally understand what your saying and I am not trying to prove you wrong. I just want to know if there would be a comparable option for me, or with a mac does everything have to be "extravagant".

I totally consider myself to be a pc guy, and with good reason. I work in the industry and 99% of the time that is what I am going to run into. (I have yet to run into a mac, even when I worked for a TV station... the video editing computers were PC's) the problem I have is that there doesn't seem to be much out there for like lets say my dad which all he does is go on craigslist, email, watch movies, etc etc... I think we got him a laptop for xmas that cost $500 and he loves it does everything he needs it to do and more for an affordable price.

I will never knock someone for buying a MAC unless its because they are a label [email protected] something down those lines.

 

[tlarkin]

I totally understand what your saying and I am not trying to prove you wrong. I just want to know if there would be a comparable option for me, or with a mac does everything have to be "extravagant".

I totally consider myself to be a pc guy, and with good reason. I work in the industry and 99% of the time that is what I am going to run into. (I have yet to run into a mac, even when I worked for a TV station... the video editing computers were PC's) the problem I have is that there doesn't seem to be much out there for like lets say my dad which all he does is go on craigslist, email, watch movies, etc etc... I think we got him a laptop for xmas that cost $500 and he loves it does everything he needs it to do and more for an affordable price.

I will never knock someone for buying a MAC unless its because they are a label [email protected] something down those lines.

Apple's entry level computers are the Mac Mini (also kind of a niche), the entry level iMac and the Macbook. Everything else is mid to upper end. They do not sell a barebones midtower (though I wish they would).

 

[Quiltface]

The imac in your first post, or i guess any mac desktop... are those upgradeable... could I add or replace a NIC in them... a video card? Do I have to use an apple card?

 

[tlarkin]

The imac in your first post, or i guess any mac desktop... are those upgradeable... could I add or replace a NIC in them... a video card? Do I have to use an apple card?

Not really, they are all-in-ones which are also not really comparable to actual desktops. You can swap out RAM, optical drive, and hard drive, everything else is built into the main logic board.

I find upgrading a moot point though. I upgrade every 3 years and if I upgrade the processor I gotta buy a new mobo, new mobo takes new RAM. Using more power, need a new PSU. Upgrading is kind of pointless at times because you typically rebuild a system rather than upgrade or in some cases just out right build a new one.

 

[Quiltface]

Yeah that is true, although it is nice sometimes to be able to bump up your graphics card for that new computer game that came out or easily replace a NIC or something if it were to fail... or add another one if you needed to... which most users wont need to. And I will go ahead and agree with you before you say anything by saying you're right those things hardly ever fail but I'm sure you get my point.

I will say that MAC has done a good job of getting the average Joe on a computer and with some degree of style. I know a big tiff about PCs is that they are ugly... aside from the build your own cases... the manufacturer's desktops can be rather dull or ugly. I will also agree that they have done a good job in cornering and dominating the audio/video/photo design market. I think PC's are starting to take a stab at that but would never become commercialized because the pro's are going to stick with MAC. However I will stand by my PC... thank you for clearing up a few questions I had about MACs though.

This has probably been the most civil MAC vs PC thread I've seen haha.

 

[CdnAudiophile]

Here are my concerns with apple:
1) Anything breaks you must send it to them, no fixing it yourself if you want your warranty.
2.) $170 for a three warranty when most PC parts already come with that standard. Others go 5 or even 7 years.
3.)4850 driving that many pixels is ridiculous. Good for desktop work but you could never game at it's native resolution. Plus you SOL because you cannot upgrade the graphics card to take full advantage of that screen.

The iMac you chose is put at that price point by apple for a reason. Start adding the options like the 2.8 i7, 8gb's of ram and 2 tb's space and a Custom PC will easily be in under the iMac's $2818. For that money I could go with an x58 chipset and have a serious performing computer. This is the first time in a long time that Mac's have come this close to the cost of Custom PC's. Mac Pro's start at 2499 come with only 3gb's of ram, 640gb's of space and a Geforce GT120.

Edit: I also forgot about Overclocking. Can you OC a mac? Take my processor for example. Completely stable at almost double it's speed and I definitely see the performance increase over stock and that's quite an advantage a PC has.

 

[tlarkin]

Here are my concerns with apple:
1) Anything breaks you must send it to them, no fixing it yourself if you want your warranty.

This goes for any manufacturer. Dell, HP, etc. On custom builds, the part manufacturer can call your failure abuse and not honor your warranty at their discretion.

2.) $170 for a three warranty when most PC parts already come with that standard. Others go 5 or even 7 years.

Applecare is hardly comparable. You don't get dedicated phone support with those warranties. Almost all of them are outsourced via email. It also offers onsite support where any AASP can come to your home and fix your Mac at your location. Sorry, they are selling a service, which is not standard to any part warranty.

3.)4850 driving that many pixels is rediculous. Good for desktop work but you could never game at it's native resolution. Plus you SOL because you cannot upgrade the graphics card to take full advatage of that screen.

Uh, for what? Bluray play back is what 50 frames per a second? You are being hooked into the video game industry marketing schemes. You don't need a powerful video card to display at high resolutions. You only need high end video cards for gaming or rendering, and even rendering can sort of be a marketing scam.

The iMac you chose is put at that price point by apple for a reason. Start adding the options like the 2.8 i7, 8gb's of ram and 2 tb's space and a Custom PC will easily be in under the iMac's $2818. For that money I could go with an x58 chipset and have a serious performing computer. This is the first time in a long time that Mac's have come this close to the cost of Custom PC's. Mac Pro's start at 2499 come with only 3gb's of ram, 640gb's of space and a Geforce GT120.

Better yet upgrade the RAM and HD myself third party and save money. Upgrading is moot point because whatever can be upgraded can always be done via third party parts.

 

[CdnAudiophile]

This goes for any manufacturer. Dell, HP, etc. On custom builds, the part manufacturer can call your failure abuse and not honor your warranty at their discretion.

I am talking more on the line if my CD-Rom dies I can just take it out and send it away while I still can use my computer unlike with a mac.

Applecare is hardly comparable. You don't get dedicated phone support with those warranties. Almost all of them are outsourced via email. It also offers onsite support where any AASP can come to your home and fix your Mac at your location. Sorry, they are selling a service, which is not standard to any part warranty.

What if I just want warranty on my parts. I don't need any of their services so what then? It's only 1 year standard and that's terrible. Why can they only guarantee their computer for one year as standard?

Uh, for what? Bluray play back is what 50 frames per a second? You are being hooked into the video game industry marketing schemes. You don't need a powerful video card to display at high resolutions. You only need high end video cards for gaming or rendering, and even rendering can sort of be a marketing scam.

So who is this computer marketed to then? A graphics designer does not need an i5 or i7. They could just buy a $500 computer and an IPS screen like you showed. A renderer can't use it because the GPU is not to par. An average user does not need a 27" screen and an i5's power. Blu-ray is only 1080p so why you need such a high resolution monitor if that's what your concerned about.

Better yet upgrade the RAM and HD myself third party and save money. Upgrading is moot point because whatever can be upgraded can always be done via third party parts.

I am not taking about upgrading but buying outright. Noone buys a iMac and changes the processor.

 

[bomberboysk]

I am talking more on the line if my CD-Rom dies I can just take it out and send it away while I still can use my computer unlike with a mac.




What if I just want warranty on my parts. I don't need any of their services so what then? It's only 1 year standard and that's terrible. Why can they only guarantee their computer for one year as standard?




So who is this computer marketed to then? A graphics designer does not need an i5 or i7. They could just buy a $500 computer and an IPS screen like you showed. A renderer can't use it because the GPU is not to par. An average user does not need a 27" screen and an i5's power. Blu-ray is only 1080p so why you need such a high resolution monitor if that's what your concerned about.



I am not taking about upgrading but buying outright. Noone buys a iMac and changes the processor.

You've obviously never worked with photoshop, blender, or any type of CAD program, as they are quite resource intensive.

 

[CdnAudiophile]

You've obviously never worked with photoshop, blender, or any type of CAD program, as they are quite resource intensive.

So you are telling me you need atleast an i5 to use those programs? I wonder what they have done all this time then. A $500 Amd quad core build is enough power for most people I know in the business. No need on wasting money on feature's a Graphics artist would ever use. Also buying the monitor seperate is such a better option as the computer can be upgraded and the monitor can move on to the next build.

 

[Ramodkk]

You don't need an i5 to run those programs, but depending on what kind of work you do, generally the size of the files, you may run into problems with a weak CPU. Besides, you can't build a good quality, quad-core build w/ a professional operating system for $500.

 

[Quiltface]

This has probably been the most civil MAC vs PC thread I've seen haha.

I spoke too soon huh?


anyway...

A guy I worked with used photoshop on a pc with a duo core and he was making billboards, it seemed to work fine. This was probably in 2006-07


I obviously get what thermal is saying, we like the fact that if something were to break like a CDrom or a nic or a soundcard etc, we can just go to a computer shop near by buy the part and we are up and going again; don't have to worry about shipping anything out or scheduling times for people to come to your house to plug something in etc etc... I cant really vouch too much for any of the manufactured brand computers warranties like dell or whatever since every pc i have ever owned since i was 5 has been a home build. I do have experience with the business side of HP and find it very good once you get past the script jockeys.

 

[bomberboysk]

So you are telling me you need atleast an i5 to use those programs? I wonder what they have done all this time then. A $500 Amd quad core build is enough power for most people I know in the business. No need on wasting money on feature's a Graphics artist would ever use. Also buying the monitor seperate is such a better option as the computer can be upgraded and the monitor can move on to the next build.

It depends on the size of the files that they are working on, i know someone who pretty much maxes out their i7 920 that is overclocked while using blender.

Also, for the display most serious graphics artists would want an led backlit IPS panel, and for the price of the imac its a pretty good deal for the hardware you get(although, arguably you can buy a 23" IPS display for around $300, but with ccfl backlight).

 

[CdnAudiophile]

The typical web page/pamphlet/logo designer that I deal with never could max out a 920. I am talking about the average user. Even in your friends case he went Custom because that is where the price/performance is. If an OC'd 920 is holding him back then a iMac would be a terrible downgrade.

 

[salvage-this]

Just to throw in my own experiences with the design portion of this. A friend of mine has been using his custom built computer to finish his senior design projects on Pro Engineer and Auto CAD. While rendering the Chain link fence that he build by each link individually, he maxed out 2 Xeon processors and 12gb of ram. I know that is a big project but if the technology is there why not use it?

 

[bkribbs]

Just to throw in my own experiences with the design portion of this. A friend of mine has been using his custom built computer to finish his senior design projects on Pro Engineer and Auto CAD. While rendering the Chain link fence that he build by each link individually, he maxed out 2 Xeon processors and 12gb of ram. I know that is a big project but if the technology is there why not use it?

12 Gigs? I didn't even know any OS supported that much!