how long is the service life of a laptop/macbook

SSD's are getting a lot cheaper and quicker.

RAM has been pretty much the same for the past 3ish years. There are more higher speeds available, but their benefit to cost ratio so far don't seem worth it except for power users. At least not with current software. Also their prices have been a roller coaster.

Processors hit the thermal limit on clock speed and started adding cores about 10 years ago or so and now we're just cranking up the core count. Seems software needs to catch up with cores. With games I expect this to be common since consoles now have 8 cores to work with. Processors are probably moving the slowest as far as main components go.

GPU's are MOVING. If I think back on the amount of GPU power I had with my 5770 from just 3 years ago to my current 7970 it's a massive difference. I paid 200 dollars for my 7850 and then replaced it 2 years later with a used 7970 for 170 dollars and almost double to performance at a lower cost. The 7970 was the most powerful GPU on the planet when it came out in Dec 2011 and is now considered mid range. It's price also was around 500 new and is worth about a fifth of that only 3 years later.

I don't think tech is advancing like it used to, at least not on the front of normal users and their "typical" computers. If you want to see crazy hardware advancements, look at phones.
 
Yeah the leap from my 5870 to my GTX 760 is big. 5870 was the fastest GPU on the planet in September 2009. GTX 760 was mid-range when it came out in June 2013.

But I think your last sentence pretty much sums up the way it is going.
 
strollin said:
There is no reason for a crapware laden Dell to last any less than a MacBook, as long as it's given reasonable care.
Click to expand...

If it's crapware laden, it's going to use more CPU cycles, thus more heat, thus more power required... it's going to accelerate the aging process significantly.
 
Okedokey said:
Prove it.
Click to expand...

618166.gif


Press Ctrl+Shift+Esc. This will bring up your task manager. Go to the 'Processes' tab. Notice all the running processes. In the column marked 'Memory' you can see how much memory each program is utilizing measured in kilobytes.

Go install some crapware. Take your pick from HP, Dell, Acer, Asus, .... just find a program with a title that would sound incredibly helpful to someone of all ages and IQ's. For good measure, get three, I don't care... just remember what they're called when it comes time to uninstall.

Go back to the 'Processes' tab and find your running program. The 'Image Name' should be something similar to the crapware you installed. Check the 'Memory' column. What's this? Our crapware is using memory? Of course! All programs use memory, so the more you're running, the more memory is going to be utilized.

Now... how does memory get utilized and modified? Something's got to be processing all this stuff! That's it! It's the Central Processing Unit! Now if you're using more memory, does that mean you're using more ... CPU? You're on the right track, Johnny! However, that's not the phrasing we want to hear. We might say something like "You're using more CPU cycles" or "You've got more load on the CPU".

Now wait, Scott, the CPU isn't some sentient all-powerful being, right? Something's got to be powering this! Good point, Johnny! Computers supply their components, including the CPU and memory, with power from the wall and through a power supply! It also runs through all kinds of components to supply the hardware with the proper amount at the proper voltage! Interesting tidbit, if you plug a wattage meter in-line with your computer and run a high-intensity program, you'll see it draws more power!

Now components aren't perfect, they're not 100% efficient... any power not utilized for the processes of computation and presentation turns into heat because of the inefficiency of the conductors like copper. Hey Johnny, remember what we had for breakfast? Oh yeah, we had scrambled eggs and toast! That's right, Johnny! Those are two foods that require heat to turn into the form we eat them in. Did you know that, by toasting and scrambling our bread and toast, we actually reduce the nutrition in them? That's because heat breaks apart the structure of the molecules inside these foods. A similar process happens in our computers! You mean our computers become sunny side up? No, Johnny, I mean when you increase the load on the computer and pull more power from the wall, it increases the heat on the components, which breaks down the components over time!

There.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-heat-affects-your-computer-and-should-you-be-worried/
http://lifehacker.com/5965864/can-i-leave-my-gadgets-in-a-cold-or-hot-car
http://superuser.com/questions/1993...the-gradual-degrade-in-performance-of-compute
 
Last edited:
ScottALot said:
618166.gif


Press Ctrl+Shift+Esc. This will bring up your task manager. Go to the 'Processes' tab. Notice all the running processes. In the column marked 'Memory' you can see how much memory each program is utilizing measured in kilobytes.

Go install some crapware. Take your pick from HP, Dell, Acer, Asus, .... just find a program with a title that would sound incredibly helpful to someone of all ages and IQ's. For good measure, get three, I don't care... just remember what they're called when it comes time to uninstall.

Go back to the 'Processes' tab and find your running program. The 'Image Name' should be something similar to the crapware you installed. Check the 'Memory' column. What's this? Our crapware is using memory? Of course! All programs use memory, so the more you're running, the more memory is going to be utilized.

Now... how does memory get utilized and modified? Something's got to be processing all this stuff! That's it! It's the Central Processing Unit! Now if you're using more memory, does that mean you're using more ... CPU? You're on the right track, Johnny! However, that's not the phrasing we want to hear. We might say something like "You're using more CPU cycles" or "You've got more load on the CPU".

Now wait, Scott, the CPU isn't some sentient all-powerful being, right? Something's got to be powering this! Good point, Johnny! Computers supply their components, including the CPU and memory, with power from the wall and through a power supply! It also runs through all kinds of components to supply the hardware with the proper amount at the proper voltage! Interesting tidbit, if you plug a wattage meter in-line with your computer and run a high-intensity program, you'll see it draws more power!

Now components aren't perfect, they're not 100% efficient... any power not utilized for the processes of computation and presentation turns into heat because of the inefficiency of the conductors like copper. Hey Johnny, remember what we had for breakfast? Oh yeah, we had scrambled eggs and toast! That's right, Johnny! Those are two foods that require heat to turn into the form we eat them in. Did you know that, by toasting and scrambling our bread and toast, we actually reduce the nutrition in them? That's because heat breaks apart the structure of the molecules inside these foods. A similar process happens in our computers! You mean our computers become sunny side up? No, Johnny, I mean when you increase the load on the computer and pull more power from the wall, it increases the heat on the components, which breaks down the components over time!

There.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-heat-affects-your-computer-and-should-you-be-worried/
http://lifehacker.com/5965864/can-i-leave-my-gadgets-in-a-cold-or-hot-car
http://superuser.com/questions/1993...the-gradual-degrade-in-performance-of-compute
Click to expand...
We know that bloatware causes computers to work just a little bit harder, but that does not prove that it will cause your computer to last a noticeably shorter time.

A few pieces of bloatware won't make your computer run at 100%. Even if it did, most people only use their laptop for several hours a day at most, not 24/7, so by the time the components die the computer will be severely outdated. The slight increase in processor usage will have a very limited effect on power, while fans increase their speed to keep up with the increased heat.

This is especially less important when comparing Mac OS X vs Windows. I've found that my brand new MacBook Pro with OS X 10.9/10.10 stays idle with the CPU at a pretty high utilization, while my Windows machine is only a few percent when idle.
 
Okay, my old Dell had so much crapware running in the background, I was at 60 percent CPU usage on the desktop. I wiped the disk, did a clean Install of 7, and my FPS in LoL went up by 10. That's how much junk there was. I wasn't saying that the lifespan of the computer would go down, but that the hardware would feel more outdated faster compared to something with no crapware.
 
Geoff said:
We know that bloatware causes computers to work just a little bit harder, but that does not prove that it will cause your computer to last a noticeably shorter time.
Click to expand...
You can find countless horror stories of crapware increasing CPU load by double digit percentages... a lot of threads on forums with the title "What is ___.exe and why is it using so much memory?"
There aren't many things short of hitting the computer with a hammer that will cause a computer to last a "noticeably" shorter time... because you don't know how long it's going to last with optimal conditions, so you don't have a baseline to compare it to.
Geoff said:
A few pieces of bloatware won't make your computer run at 100%. Even if it did, most people only use their laptop for several hours a day at most, not 24/7, so by the time the components die the computer will be severely outdated. The slight increase in processor usage will have a very limited effect on power, while fans increase their speed to keep up with the increased heat.
Click to expand...
Not straight out of the box, no. However, these things come with their own crapware update utility that gradually increases the load these things put on the machine.
Geoff said:
This is especially less important when comparing Mac OS X vs Windows. I've found that my brand new MacBook Pro with OS X 10.9/10.10 stays idle with the CPU at a pretty high utilization, while my Windows machine is only a few percent when idle.
Click to expand...
This seems like a very moot point given you don't have crapware installed on your machine, and you are part of the 1% of competent computer users.
Okedokey said:
^ exactly
most physics of failure analysis ive read indicates temperature is not the cause of issues, certainly not enough to attribute to any bloatware
https://nepp.nasa.gov/files/16365/08_102_4_ JPL_White.pdf
Click to expand...
You mean the only physics of failure analysis you've read?
We're looking at more than one component... think about all the 50,000 hour MTBF parts on the average board. That's a mean time of about five and a half years. That means a good user that keeps their hardware cool, doesn't roughhouse it, keeps it stored in good humidity, etc... will get far beyond that, while the worst users running hot, keeping it in the unfinished basement, etc... can get well below that.

Also did you even read that paper?

"Technological pressures on the electronics industry to reduce transitor size and decrease cost while increasing transitor count per chip, however, runs counter to the needs of most highreliability applications where long life with exceptional reliability is critical. As design rules have become tighter, power consumption has increased and voltage margins have become almost nonexistent for the designed performance level. In achieving the desired performance levels, the lifetime of most commercial parts is the ultimate casualty. Most large systems are built with the assumption that electronic components will last for decades without failure. However, counter to this assumption, device reliability physics is becoming so well understood that manufacturing foundries are designing microcircuits for a three- to seven-year useful life, as that is what most of the industry seeks. The military, aerospace, medical, and especially the telecommunications industries cannot afford to depend on custom parts for their most sophisticated circuit designs."
ninjabubbles3 said:
Okay, my old Dell had so much crapware running in the background, I was at 60 percent CPU usage on the desktop. I wiped the disk, did a clean Install of 7, and my FPS in LoL went up by 10. That's how much junk there was. I wasn't saying that the lifespan of the computer would go down, but that the hardware would feel more outdated faster compared to something with no crapware.
Click to expand...
This is the average story when it comes to crapware. Glad you cleared it all out, it's the bane of a new computer to come with all that.
 
Using your logic, someone who does gaming or other computing tasks that truly utilize the cpu causing their computer to run warmer (yet not overheating) will see a significant decrease in the lifetime of their computer than someone who only surfs the web and their cpu spends the bulk of it's life sitting at idle. I haven't found this to be true, in fact most gamers are well aware of possible problems caused by overheating so take necessary steps to keep their systems from overheating. A gaming system will still run warmer than a system used to surf the web (even if it has crapware on it).

Heat isn't really an issue as long as the components don't get warmer than their designed operating temperature range. If someone allows their computer's air vents to plug up with lint, operates the computer in a dusty environment or unfinished basement, etc... that will have a far greater impact on the lifetime of the internal components than a few background processes.
 
Yeah I'm with Geoff and Okey on this. Sure the crap may make your computer work a little harder, but in the long run it's not going to severely diminish the actual functional life out of the hardware. At least not to a degree that many people would notice before it was replaced for being outdated anyway.

Yeah crapware sucks and slows down your computer. People are more inclined to upgrade when their system doesn't act like it should. Crapware that slows it down contributes to this. So yeah more crapware laden computers won't last as long because the user might want to upgrade sooner since it's slower to them, but I don't really see the crapware actually damaging the computer and shortening it's usable lifespan before it would be replaced anyway.
 
strollin said:
Using your logic, someone who does gaming or other computing tasks that truly utilize the cpu causing their computer to run warmer (yet not overheating) will see a significant decrease in the lifetime of their computer than someone who only surfs the web and their cpu spends the bulk of it's life sitting at idle. I haven't found this to be true, in fact most gamers are well aware of possible problems caused by overheating so take necessary steps to keep their systems from overheating. A gaming system will still run warmer than a system used to surf the web (even if it has crapware on it).
Click to expand...
You just said that heat wouldn't cause significant lifetime decrease, but gamers take necessary steps to keep their systems cool. I wonder why that is...

You can run 100% CPU load on an Intel stock heatsink for days... but you're going to hurt the computer's performance and lifetime. Therefore, enthusiasts and gamers get better heatsinks that better dissipate the heat so they can run higher loads with less damage. However, laptops and macbooks don't really give much opportunity to do this.

Yes, a gaming computer might run hotter at idle than a consumer computer with some load... because of power draw. Gaming computers have higher clocks, more cores, ... on their CPU's than consumer CPU's do. Gaming computers also have higher quality parts than consumer computers do (ex. Gigabyte's whole Ultra Durable series, MSI's whole Military Class series, ...) to make up for it.
strollin said:
Heat isn't really an issue as long as the components don't get warmer than their designed operating temperature range. If someone allows their computer's air vents to plug up with lint, operates the computer in a dusty environment or unfinished basement, etc... that will have a far greater impact on the lifetime of the internal components than a few background processes.
Click to expand...
Operating temperature ranges aren't just some arbitrary numbers, they're found through trial and error, the scientific method, to find a target component lifetime with an easily attainable temperature.

Yes, lint clogged computers have lower lifetimes because of heat. Just like crapware-laden computers have lower lifetimes because of heat and power draw.
 
PPBart said:
I never thought about that. Why would the mere presence of "crapware" affect the service life?
Click to expand...

Because the more junk that is running in the background, the faster the hardware will feel outdated. However, if you take good care of it, clean it up, it would last just as long
 
hi guys
so as I don't play games at all and will only use my laptop for documentary work, browsing websites and listening to music and will never play any games or do any intense video work (except I will install GIMP for some basic photo editing but that's really not into consideration)

I know there are lots of laptops so it's hard to recommend a particular model, so can anyone recommend a configuration of hardware for reference that will do good for my need and I'll look for something near that kind of config. please also provide an estimation of the range of prices for that config.

btw, do I really need those sort of cooling pad or cooling stuff to sit under the laptop?? is that really necessary or just something gimmick??

Thank you.

And is something by Lenovo a good and durable choice?
 
spirit said:
Yup Lenovo are good. I like my ThinkPad. :good:

I'd just get any basic i3 machine you can really. i3, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, Windows 8.1 will suit you fine.

If you like Lenovo look at the G40 and G40. The difference between them is that the G40 is 14" and the G50 15". Both start at $450: http://shop.lenovo.com/us/en/laptops/lenovo/g-series/?menu-id=g_series
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hi I am running on i5, 4GB x 2 RAM, 1T HDD Windows 7 Home Premium with my current desktop PC, doing the same thing as I said, No game, no photoshop, no video work and nothing heavy, I am sometimes experiencing system crash and lag, I clean installed the windows not long ago, is that mean i5 and 8GB RAM may not be enough for me?? or is my desktop hardware failing or not well installed?? I am using a case with cable management and I only have one case fans, is that enough??
 
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