Surge Protector

Benny Boy

Active Member
What's a good protector?. Trying to stay under $50 shipped but maybe thats overkill. I don't know what joules means/how much I need, other than the higher the better. I may or may not use added features, atm it just seems like more wires/cables for things like tele and cat. My plugs will fit any of these and the higher priced ones are more than I'd like to pay but I don't know how good the cheaper of the 4 would be for my use. click here
http://www.newegg.com/Store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=535&name=Surge-Suppressors&Order=PRICE&Pagesize=100
Some guidance and suggestions would be helpful. Min 8 outlets that will support w/3 converters at the plug. Here's what it's for
Sig rig
inkjet printer
monitors = led + older 35w tft
22" led tv
inexpensive 5.1 speakers
powered telephone
Ext drive enclosure w/fan
Green = low power w/ inline converters (3 of these are reg size converters at the plug)
Thanks
 
I don't know what joules means/how much I need, other than the higher the better.

An adjacent protector will do one of two things. Either it will block a surge. Or it will absorb that surge energy. How many joules in that protector? Well, its above zero. So they can call it 100% protection in advertising. But a destructive surge is hundreds of thousands of joules. How do near zero (hundreds of) joules in that protector absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't. It does not claim protection. It only claims to be a surge protector and is profitable.

How does that 2 centiimeter part stop what three miles of sky could not? Again, did they ignore that fact to sell a $4 power strip with ten cent protector parts for $50?

Facilities that can never have damage use another completely different device that, unfortunately, is also called a surge protector. This completely different device connects hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to earth. If that energy is not inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances, then you have protection.

Facilities that cannot have damage do not waste money on protectors that will somehow absorb or block a surge. IOW they ignore advertising; endorse science. Earth one 'whole house' protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Best protection at an appliance is already inside the appliance. Your concern is a destructive surge that may overwhelm that protection. That means earthing hundreds of thousands of joules outside. Energy absorbed harmlessly outside will not be inside hunting for appliances. That superior solution also costs tens or 100 times less money.

More responsible companies sell the superior solution. Including Siemens, ABB, Keison, General Electric, Leviton, Square D, Clipsal, Ditek, Polyphaser, or Intermatic. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50.

But again, no protector does protection. Protection means earth ground absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - harmlessly. Also upgrade your earthing to both meet and exceed code requirements. Because the earthing - not any protector - does the protection.

A protector only connects even direct lightning strikes harmlessly to earth. And remains functional. Lightning is maybe 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. Earth - where energy (hundreds of thousands of joules) gets harmlessly absorbed. One protector properly earthed protects everything. The best solution is also less expensive.
 
^ to sum up this wall of... make sure it can handle as much as it can,
A protector of 140 joules or 2000 joules is near zero joules. A useful reply provides perspective. That means specific numbers. If numbers are not posted, the post is probably a rant by one easily manipulated buy advertising propaganda.

That Tripplite is an ideal example. It (at 1440 joules) can only absorb 480 joules and never more than 960 joules during a surge that is maybe hundreds of thousands of joules. Where is the protection? He posted a subjective recommendation. That alone implies a bogus recommendation. Where in "Details" does it claim to protect from any surge? It doesn't.

Meanwhile, Tripplite did not appear in a list of more responsible companies. It was not an accident - as even joules numbers demonstrate.

He would pay $23 per protected appliance when a superior soluton costs about $1 per? Why would anyone pay 23 times more for inferior protection? Yes, many are that easily manipulated by advertising and hearsay.
 
960J is pretty big, but go for the higher the better. Look for UL ratings, clamp voltage, response time and surge fail threshold (J).
 
@westom - how about instead of going off and spewing stuff...make a recommendation? all im seeing is babble... bigfella got to the point in 2 sentences...
 
...make a recommendation? all im seeing is babble...
Myths and scams are promoted by sound bytes or two sentences.

Solutions, proven by over 100 years of experience, are obvious and simple.
Earth one 'whole house' protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance. ... More responsible companies sell the superior solution. Including Siemens, ABB, Keison, General Electric, Leviton, Square D, Clipsal, Ditek, Polyphaser, or Intermatic. A Cutler-Hammer solution sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. ... But again, no protector does protection. Protection means earth ground absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules - harmlessly. Also upgrade your earthing to both meet and exceed code requirements.

960 joules is near zero protection. Also obvious since two sentences do not even say why he knows otherwise.

A 960 joule surge is often made irrelevant by protection already inside every appliance. Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. Superior protection means even direct lightning strikes without damage. Without damage even to a protector. The superior solution from more responsible companies also costs less money. And comes with sentences that also say why it is superior and less expensive.

Why would someone earth a 'whole house' protector? Because a 960 joule protector needs that protection.
 
Myths and scams are promoted by sound bytes or two sentences.

Solutions, proven by over 100 years of experience, are obvious and simple.

960 joules is near zero protection. Also obvious since two sentences do not even say why he knows otherwise.

A 960 joule surge is often made irrelevant by protection already inside every appliance. Destructive surges are hundreds of thousands of joules. Superior protection means even direct lightning strikes without damage. Without damage even to a protector. The superior solution from more responsible companies also costs less money. And comes with sentences that also say why it is superior and less expensive.

Why would someone earth a 'whole house' protector? Because a 960 joule protector needs that protection.

Im not finding any like your describing on home depot, can you link one?
 
gamblingman
FuryRosewood
Thanks for the suggestions and input.

bigfellla
Appreciate the what to look for.

westom
Didn't know such an animal existed. The 'whole house' that is :) So thanks for your input as well.
I'm going to put my house on the market so just a bigger local strip with the outlets needed atm,
but I'll look into incorporating one on the next one.

I think I'll go with this one since the phone/ethernet/coax could help w/ cable management.
 
Excellent information on surges and surge protection is at:
http://www.lightningsafety.com/nlsi_lhm/IEEE_Guide.pdf
- "How to protect your house and its contents from lightning: IEEE guide for surge protection of equipment connected to AC power and communication circuits" published by the IEEE in 2005 (the IEEE is a major organization of electrical and electronic engineers).
And also:
http://www.eeel.nist.gov/817/pubs/spd-anthology/files/Surges happen!.pdf
- "NIST recommended practice guide: Surges Happen!: how to protect the appliances in your home" published by the US National Institute of Standards and Technology in 2001

The IEEE surge guide is more technical.

An adjacent protector will do one of two things. Either it will block a surge. Or it will absorb that surge energy.

Surge protectors do not work by "blocking" or "absorbing".

The IEEE surge guide explains (starting page 30) that plug-in protectors primarily work by limiting the voltage from each wire (power and signal) to the ground at the protector. The voltage between the wires going to the protected equipment is safe for the protected equipment.

***
All interconnected equipment needs to be connected to the same protector. External connections, like coax also must go through the protector. The voltage between the wires going to the protected equipment is safe for the protected equipment.


How many joules in that protector? Well, its above zero. So they can call it 100% protection in advertising. But a destructive surge is hundreds of thousands of joules. How do near zero (hundreds of) joules in that protector absorb hundreds of thousands of joules? It doesn't.

Of course it doesn't.

The author of the NIST surge guide investigated how much energy might be absorbed in a MOV in a plug-in protector. Branch circuits were 10M and longer, and the surge on incoming power wires was up to 10,000A. (That is the maximum that has any reasonable probability of occurring, as below) The maximum energy at the MOV was a surprisingly small 35 joules. In 13 of 15 cases it was 1 joule or less. (This is based on wiring practice in the US and could vary with other wiring practices.)

Plug-in protectors with much higher ratings (like 960J) are readily available. High ratings mean long life. A plug-in protector, wired correctly, is very likely to protect from a very near very strong lightning strike.

It does not claim protection.

Complete nonsense.
Some protectors even have protected equipment warranties.

And both the IEEE and NIST surge guides say plug-in protectors are effective.

Earth one 'whole house' protector that costs about $1 per protected appliance.

Service panel protectors are a real good idea.
But from the NIST guide:
"Q - Will a surge protector installed at the service entrance be sufficient for the whole house?
A - There are two answers to than question: Yes for one-link appliances [electronic equipment], No for two-link appliances [equipment connected to power AND phone or cable or....]. Since most homes today have some kind of two-link appliances, the prudent answer to the question would be NO - but that does not mean that a surge protector installed at the service entrance is useless."

Service panel suppressors do not by themselves prevent high voltages from developing between power and phone/cable/... wires. The NIST surge guide suggests most equipment damage is from high voltage between power and signal wires.

More responsible companies sell the superior solution. Including Siemens, ABB, Keison, General Electric, Leviton, Square D, Clipsal, Ditek, Polyphaser, or Intermatic.

All these "responsible companies" except SquareD and Polyphaser make plug-in protectors and say they are effective. Westom says plug-in protectors don't work.

SquareD says for their "best" service panel suppressor "electronic equipment may need additional protection by installing plug-in [protectors] at the point of use."

Lightning is maybe 20,000 amps. So a minimal 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps.

The author of the NIST surge guide looked at the surge current that could come in on residential power wires. The maximum with any reasonable probability of occurring was 10,000A per wire (30,000A for H-H-N). That is based on a 100,000A lighting strike to a utility pole adjacent to the house in typical urban overhead distribution.

Recommended ratings for service panel protectors is in the IEEE surge guide on page 18. Ratings far higher than 10,000A per wire mean the protector will have a long life.

Service panel protectors are very likely to protect anything connected only to power wires from a very near very strong lightning strike. They may or may not protect equipment connected to both power and signal wires
 
When he said earth I though something you put in the ground,
In earth is an electrode. The single point earth ground. That is your protection. A protector connects a surge low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to that electrode.

Cable TV already has best possible protection. No protector required. A wire makes that low impedance connection.

Telephone cannot connect to earth only by a wire. So the telco installs (for free) a 'whole house' protector to do what cable TV does with only a wire.

Each Home Depot example connects each AC utility wire to earth. It does not go before plugs as if something would stop a surge. Nothing but scams stop a surge. For AC electric, that 'whole house' protector makes the connection to earth that would otherwise be made with a wire.
 
Cable TV already has best possible protection. No protector required. A wire makes that low impedance connection.

"No protector required"?

The IEEE guide says “there is no requirement to limit the voltage developed between the core and the sheath. .... The only voltage limit is the breakdown of the F connectors, typically ~2–4 kV.” And "there is obviously the possibility of damage to TV tuners and cable modems from the very high voltages that can be developed, especially from nearby lightning."

Nothing but scams stop a surge.

How fortunate that nobody (except westom) talks about "stopping" a surge.
 
In earth is an electrode. The single point earth ground. That is your protection. A protector connects a surge low impedance (ie 'less than 10 feet') to that electrode.

Cable TV already has best possible protection. No protector required. A wire makes that low impedance connection.

Telephone cannot connect to earth only by a wire. So the telco installs (for free) a 'whole house' protector to do what cable TV does with only a wire.

Each Home Depot example connects each AC utility wire to earth. It does not go before plugs as if something would stop a surge. Nothing but scams stop a surge. For AC electric, that 'whole house' protector makes the connection to earth that would otherwise be made with a wire.

Thanks for clarifying. I not good with how a house is wired. I know welding and computers good, not this.
 
The thing I like about Belkin, and the reason they are the only surge protector company I will use, is their Connected Equipment Warranty. It covers any and all equipment you have connected to the surge protector. The amount I believe does vary, but for that model I linked to (BE112234-10) it carries a $300,000 warranty for any equipment you have connected to the protector.

Any piece of equipment you would want to claim as damaged by surge (say from lightning) HAS to have been FULLY connected to the surge protector and the surge protector connected to a three prong, properly grounded outlet. This is just a very short synopsis of the warranty, but its pretty good to have that kind of coverage. Though it is only valid for the US, Canada, Puerto Rico, Bermuda. You can get a full copy of their warranty if you just call them.

Also, their customer service is some of the best I've ever used. They are knowledgeable and they work fast.
 
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