Yes it's true....but do you really think you won here?? The whole argument started because I said an I5 is faster clock for clock than the Phenom II and people argued with me. I said 20%, it ended up being 15% oh well I was off a little. Point is, the I5 beats the Phenom II clock for clock very easily and definitively. And, typically, intel I5/I7 CPU's overclock further than Phenom II's on air.
AM3 Mobo which one???
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Yes it's true....but do you really think you won here?? The whole argument started because I said an I5 is faster clock for clock than the Phenom II and people argued with me. I said 20%, it ended up being 15% oh well I was off a little. Point is, the I5 beats the Phenom II clock for clock very easily and definitively. And, typically, intel I5/I7 CPU's overclock further than Phenom II's on air.
Hmm, on the same page-
http://hwbot.org/rankings/benchmark/wprime_1024m/rankings?start=680&cores=4
An I5 750 at 4.38ghz was 5 seconds faster than a 965be at 5.22ghz. Pretty close to a 4ghz___5ghz comparison right there.
EDIT- Oh the sweet smell of victory-
I5 at 4ghz-
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/954396_darksfa_wprime_32m_core_i5_750_7sec_718ms
965 at 5ghz- (slower than the I5 at 4ghz in case you didn't notice)
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/942159_gnidaol_wprime_32m_phenom_ii_x4_965_be_7sec_783ms
I also wanted to mention this small fact. Take a look at the clock speed and times of the I5's-
http://hwbot.org/rankings/benchmark/wprime_1024m/rankings?hardware=core_i5_750
And now the Phenom II 965's-
http://hwbot.org/rankings/benchmark/wprime_1024m/rankings?hardware=phenom_ii_x4_965_be
For the number one spot, the Phenom II is clocked 1.3ghz higher and is only 7 seconds faster. Sad. And you people really think the Phenom II is as fast as an I5 750? Thats sadder yet. Placebo effect huh?
El Gappo, thats now twice you lost at your own game by telling me to go to HWbot. Epic fail. Whats even worse is, you will either not respond anymore, or simply give a cop out response saying I'm just being childish or whatever.
In conclusion, I5 750 FTW!
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jasonn20
New Member
965 at 5ghz- (slower than the I5 at 4ghz in case you didn't notice)
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/942159_gnidaol_wprime_32m_phenom_ii_x4_965_be_7sec_783ms
that is a pretty poor overclock to only have a 2600mhz NB frequency on Dice.. if AMD can open these chip up abit then it would make a big difference and I believe the limitation is the MB itself... hurry up 890!
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/942159_gnidaol_wprime_32m_phenom_ii_x4_965_be_7sec_783ms
that is a pretty poor overclock to only have a 2600mhz NB frequency on Dice.. if AMD can open these chip up abit then it would make a big difference and I believe the limitation is the MB itself... hurry up 890!
According to El gappo Wprime doesn't like high NB speeds.
Always just excuses for AMD. Sorry, intel FTW.
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jasonn20
New Member
You might be suprised AMD might pull a rabbitt out of the hat on you.. 
Not saying your wrong just saying the NB needs overhauled on AMD MB's it should boost there AM3 chip line in performance... i would like to think anyway... not much info on these boards yet... AMD better get there finger out of there butt or they are going to keep losing the market
Not saying your wrong just saying the NB needs overhauled on AMD MB's it should boost there AM3 chip line in performance... i would like to think anyway... not much info on these boards yet... AMD better get there finger out of there butt or they are going to keep losing the market
Aastii
VIP Member
87dtna, in the past you have been known for your extreme fanboyisms, for instance, the last post here, so just about everything said in the last 3 or 4 of your posts I am taking with a massive pinch of salt
Now I think that the i5 is quicker than the PII 965's on benchmarks and such clock for clock, however, the "proof" of the 4GHz to 5GHz doesn't realy work, seeing as how the full specs aren't listed. If they were on comparable motherboards with the same NB frequencies, memory clocks and latencies, same hard drives, same everything except the CPU, so it is as damn close as possible, I bet that the difference would be in favour of the PII. Maybe not massively, but a 5GHz PII will beat a 4GHz i5 I'd have thought, just about indefinately
=EDIT=
I don't want to join in with this, but can I point out that it was said that AMD don't OC as well as Intel do. Well, look at the last 2 links in #44 and note that AMDs are up to 6.4+ while Intel are only at 5.1, so there is one part of this thread disproved fully
Now I think that the i5 is quicker than the PII 965's on benchmarks and such clock for clock, however, the "proof" of the 4GHz to 5GHz doesn't realy work, seeing as how the full specs aren't listed. If they were on comparable motherboards with the same NB frequencies, memory clocks and latencies, same hard drives, same everything except the CPU, so it is as damn close as possible, I bet that the difference would be in favour of the PII. Maybe not massively, but a 5GHz PII will beat a 4GHz i5 I'd have thought, just about indefinately
=EDIT=
I don't want to join in with this, but can I point out that it was said that AMD don't OC as well as Intel do. Well, look at the last 2 links in #44 and note that AMDs are up to 6.4+ while Intel are only at 5.1, so there is one part of this thread disproved fully
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Drenlin
Active Member
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulldozer_(processor)
And really I don't think they've lost the market, but they definitely don't have the "high end" spot. For cheaper rigs, though, AMD has better offerings than everything intel has under $200, except maybe the i3 530.
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Yeah that was because I bought a 4870 and the gts250 was almost as good performance using less power and less heat. So I ended up selling the 4870.
I'm not a fanboy, I actually try out hardware on the other side. I've owned many AMD setups in the past.
On air buddy, 99% of people only run air cooling. And besides, why do you need 6.4ghz on a Phenom II when 5.1ghz on an I5 is nearly the same performance. Oh that argument backfired on you didn't it
One other thing to remember, the I5 started out at 2.6ghz not 3.4 like the Phenom II. Lets look at an Intel CPU that started at 3.4ghz also-
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/952562_hicookie_cpu_z_core_i5_670_7124.7_mhz
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Dazzeerr
New Member
I don't understand why there's an argument here.
87dtna is right. Intel have been dominating the gaming market for a while now.
I would love to see the figures for Intel vs. AMD sales for gamers since.. pfft.. 2004?
E8400/Q6600. Who doesn't know someone with one? What was out for AMD then? Phenom I, which lacked behind and was generally fail.
Core i5/Core i7. Who doesn't know someone with one/who want's one? AMD are lacking behind again with Phenom II's.
I can't see how millions of gamers are making the wrong choice. Call me a fanboy, call me whatever. Intel > AMD.
AMD were on top when Intel chips weren't unlockable, since then it's been Intel.
87dtna is right. Intel have been dominating the gaming market for a while now.
I would love to see the figures for Intel vs. AMD sales for gamers since.. pfft.. 2004?
E8400/Q6600. Who doesn't know someone with one? What was out for AMD then? Phenom I, which lacked behind and was generally fail.
Core i5/Core i7. Who doesn't know someone with one/who want's one? AMD are lacking behind again with Phenom II's.
I can't see how millions of gamers are making the wrong choice. Call me a fanboy, call me whatever. Intel > AMD.
AMD were on top when Intel chips weren't unlockable, since then it's been Intel.
Th3_Chill_ʇɔǝɟɟǝ
banned
Again, I've owned both and for gaming there is absolutely ZERO performance difference between a Phenom II and any...YES ANY i7 or i5. Period.
Let's not forget that AMD has traditionally not done well in PI's. Why? I dunno? To throw a couple of excuses out there as it could be to integer calculations or a simple fact that it could have been compiled with the Intel compiler. If you haven't kept up with this shamey on you.
Also, you guys are using one aspect of benching to compare the processors, which of many reasons why this isn't good practice is because this person will not use or hit those frequencies, and it's a very narrow window for comparison.
I love how everyone always throws out video encoding as if an AMD processor can't do this. An i7 will save you what? 30 seconds? With innovations in this field to off load this type of rendering onto the gpu it further makes it a moot point. I also find it even funnier that the people who use this as an excuse are the same ones who don't even do it. It just happens to fit their argument. Out of the many i7's I've owned I never once done any video encoding. How about FRAPS? Yes, I have noticed no performance difference. In fact, it almost seems that FRAPS actually works better on the Phenom II, but I really have no way of testing this. So for now, I'll call it equal.
I'll reiterate, If the OP just likes to play games and mainly use his pc what 99.9999999 percent of other simple users use pc for, his money will be better spent on the AMD setup. This will free funds for a better graphics processor and possibly an SSD, which have more of a bearing on "performance feel".
Let's not forget that AMD has traditionally not done well in PI's. Why? I dunno? To throw a couple of excuses out there as it could be to integer calculations or a simple fact that it could have been compiled with the Intel compiler. If you haven't kept up with this shamey on you.
Also, you guys are using one aspect of benching to compare the processors, which of many reasons why this isn't good practice is because this person will not use or hit those frequencies, and it's a very narrow window for comparison.
I love how everyone always throws out video encoding as if an AMD processor can't do this. An i7 will save you what? 30 seconds? With innovations in this field to off load this type of rendering onto the gpu it further makes it a moot point. I also find it even funnier that the people who use this as an excuse are the same ones who don't even do it. It just happens to fit their argument. Out of the many i7's I've owned I never once done any video encoding. How about FRAPS? Yes, I have noticed no performance difference. In fact, it almost seems that FRAPS actually works better on the Phenom II, but I really have no way of testing this. So for now, I'll call it equal.
I'll reiterate, If the OP just likes to play games and mainly use his pc what 99.9999999 percent of other simple users use pc for, his money will be better spent on the AMD setup. This will free funds for a better graphics processor and possibly an SSD, which have more of a bearing on "performance feel".
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ohhhhh, now it's just gaming performance thats not different?
Just how many time are you amd fanboys gonna shove your foot in your mouth?
On HWbot, look at any benchmark for quad cores, the first several hundred results will be I7's and I5's before you'll even find a Phenom II in there thats clocked much higher too I might add. This isn't even a debate, the I7 and I5 OWN phenom II's.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-i5-gaming,2403-5.html
^Before you say there's only 1-2FPS difference in most tests, bare in mind th I5 is less clock speed here. The 965 has 3.4ghz across the board, the I5 has 3.2 on cores 1+2 and 2.8ghz on cores 3+4. If the 750 was clocked to 3.4ghz on all four cores I'd imagine the gaming performance would be around 3-5 more FPS.
Aastii
VIP Member
Yeah that was because I bought a 4870 and the gts250 was almost as good performance using less power and less heat. So I ended up selling the 4870.
I'm not a fanboy, I actually try out hardware on the other side. I've owned many AMD setups in the past.
On air buddy, 99% of people only run air cooling. And besides, why do you need 6.4ghz on a Phenom II when 5.1ghz on an I5 is nearly the same performance. Oh that argument backfired on you didn't it
One other thing to remember, the I5 started out at 2.6ghz not 3.4 like the Phenom II. Lets look at an Intel CPU that started at 3.4ghz also-
http://hwbot.org/community/submission/952562_hicookie_cpu_z_core_i5_670_7124.7_mhz
So ATi "blows", isn't fanboyism against ATi
kkand What argument? I wasn't arguing, I was putting in my thoughts. It was said they wouldn't overclock as high initially, then the tune changed to "on air". Now that seems a little hypocritical, I mean, you are having a go at people for changing the parameters to which results should be based on, yet you yourself are doing it?
This is a pointless "debate" anyway, I mean AMD make fine, fully working CPUs that work in any sector, they have budget ones, mid range ones, enthusiast ones, as do Intel. Both companies make CPUs that work in these scenarios flawlessly and brilliantly. If one was massively better than the other, this debate would be pointless and most probably non-existant because it would have gone "why AMD, look at how crap they are *post reference to top end not being able to play games any more recent than 5 years ago*" and that would have been the end. The fact that a discussion is to be had proves that other than benchmarks, bragging rights and fanboyism, there is nothing really going for one over the other at all.
I play games maybe 30 hours a week, an excessive amount yes, and my rig handles it fine, that is all latest games on full settings (except for uber intensive games, then it is my VIDEO CARD that holds me back). I payed a fraction of the price that I would have done for an i7 system, and yet my 3.2GHz quad core, that I got for the price of a tri core, Intel can't do that, can play the latest and greatest with no problems. If anything, gamers who go AMD are making the right choice, they are favouring their pockets over bragging rights.
However, if I had the money to build an i7 rig, I would. I would sooner have a 1366 system over AM3 with the money, however for my budget, I would sooner have an AM3 system over i3. AMD has the "budget" end of the market, and even the high end of the market, which the 955 and 965 fall into, they aren't far behind in practical use. A few seconds slower here and there, but even to an enthusiast, that isn't noticable under normal use, only when benching. Benchmarks mean diddly squat though. It is nice to have numbers on screen, but if those numbers don't equate to noticably better performance in real use, then they mean jack.
BACK OT THOUGH, +1 for the M4A79XTD EVO. On mine I have managed to get my 720BE unlocked to a quad core and totally stable with nothing changed but opening up the fourth core (mostly down to the chip, yes, but it was hella easy to do once I worked out the setting). I have overclocked as high as 3.6GHz on stock AMD cooling, haven't tried pushing it so far on my new cooler yet, but I can see it easily hitting 4GHz+ and not getting too hot. All of this so simple because of bios is so stable and easy to use. The NB is staying so cool even with a relatively small NB HS, the board layout is just about perfect, especially seeing as how they did something Asus normally don't do which is realise that SATA slots on the top can often impair a video card fitting in properly with a SATA cable in, so the top slots on the board doesn't affect the cards one bit, in CF or single card.
It also has a feature which I don't know why every mobo doesn't have it, and that is clips on the PCI ports. Rather than that bendy bit of plastic which, if you have dual video cards or an aftermarket NB heatsink or just fat fingers, you can't get them or they are fiddly as hell, especially to get both hands in there to move the plastic and pull it out. The clips though unlatch the card and push it out, sort of like the memory ones, and it makes things a hell of alot easier. I put, and took out, a 5850 off of one and it was so much easier that taking even an 8600GT out of my P5N-e SLI, which had the bendy plastic clips and a card which is about a quarter of the size of the 5850
It's got a load of neat Asus features too, like 8+2 phase, EZflash, Asus OS, which isn't made by Asus, but it is awesome for browsing the internet and listening to music and that, and is tiny
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El Gappo
New Member
So I go out for a weekend and I'm busy during the day like most guys and suddenly I'm a coward? me having a social life is an excuse for you to send abusive pm's?
Right so please show me where you made me eat my words because Im dying to see. You said an i5 would beat a 5ghz phenom II, I didn't have access to mine so I post up my old air score at 4.4 (being completely polite through the whole thing as always) and you win with a lot of variables in your favor OMG congratulations, give yourself a pat on the back. You somehow see this as something to be pround of and mock me... I don't think you even realized That 1 test was run nearly 1000mhz off what you asked for but that's not surprising coming from someone of your mental status.
Take a look at the title of the thread for starters, you are completely wrong on everything so far.
No wonder there is a significant lack of knowledgeable people on this forum, they either get banned because so called "VIP's" feel threatened by them and hold threads hostage or they get abused when here AND even when they aren't within 20 miles of a computer.
Keeping people like me ncspecv81 and meticadpa around would of done your forum some good. You could of learned instead of trolling each and every one of our posts and being completely wrong in doing so but no....
A word of advice mep, you may want to remove some of these trolls as you know people take one look at this forum and notice nothing but a lack of quality information and a bunch of douchebags that hate new members. It's not exactly heaving because of it.
87dtna said:
Right so please show me where you made me eat my words because Im dying to see. You said an i5 would beat a 5ghz phenom II, I didn't have access to mine so I post up my old air score at 4.4 (being completely polite through the whole thing as always) and you win with a lot of variables in your favor OMG congratulations, give yourself a pat on the back. You somehow see this as something to be pround of and mock me... I don't think you even realized That 1 test was run nearly 1000mhz off what you asked for but that's not surprising coming from someone of your mental status.
Take a look at the title of the thread for starters, you are completely wrong on everything so far.
No wonder there is a significant lack of knowledgeable people on this forum, they either get banned because so called "VIP's" feel threatened by them and hold threads hostage
or they get abused when here AND even when they aren't within 20 miles of a computer. Keeping people like me ncspecv81 and meticadpa around would of done your forum some good. You could of learned instead of trolling each and every one of our posts and being completely wrong in doing so but no....
A word of advice mep, you may want to remove some of these trolls as you know people take one look at this forum and notice nothing but a lack of quality information and a bunch of douchebags that hate new members. It's not exactly heaving because of it.
Aastii
VIP Member
I personally can see yet another thread being closed due to it going OT, then some trolling happens, then the OP doesn't get the answer they wanted because some selfish members decided to have an argument over someone elses thread rather than start another or carry it on over pm's. Nice work :good:
Dystopia
Active Member
Aastii is right. Lets stay on topic.
Best motherboard. Well, looks like you don't have budget, so: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131361&cm_re=AM3-_-13-131-361-_-Product would be the best one. It may already have been linked.
Best motherboard. Well, looks like you don't have budget, so: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131361&cm_re=AM3-_-13-131-361-_-Product would be the best one. It may already have been linked.
Man, this thread has carried into the land of B/S. Over a motherboard. What a bunch of nimrods. One Fanboy of what ever he owns at the moment and one narcissist. Then blame each other. Think you both have proved yourself today.
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